How Credit Unions Can Turn the 2025 CUES Compensation Survey Into a Strategic Advantage

 Introduction

Doug English: Well, Sharon Messmore from CUES, welcome to C.U. On The Show. I’m delighted to have you join me today to talk about, uh, one of my favorite geeky data points in the credit union industry, the 2025 CUES executive compensation survey.
Sharon Messmore: Thank you. Glad to be here.
Doug English: So, uh, on my right screen I have the survey.
So, uh, uh, viewers, i, i, as much as I love you and like to engage with you visually the whole time, I’m gonna lead to look to the right a little bit as we look through the survey, some points and wanna ask Sharon some questions on and just see what, uh, we can garner from this year’s survey. What’s different from the years past, what a.
What does CUES see as the key takeaways? And then maybe most importantly, how should credit unions go about using the survey, uh, with a comp consultant with CUES, uh, itself? Like, um, may, maybe, let’s start there Sharon. Like what are the best practices for you? Read this data. ’cause [00:01:00] most of my listeners are senior executives.
Uh, you, you read, you hear about this data, you, you get the survey ’cause you’re a CUES member. And then what do you do? What’s next?

How to Use the Survey Data (Best Practices)

Sharon Messmore: Well, you look at it and then you say, what data am I missing? And you, you know, we are tried, tried to be transparent about where we’re getting the data from. Um, the different regions, the different areas.
If you’re going in and looking in the survey portal that we offer for members and subscribers, you can cut and slice and dice down to different locations and different, uh, types of. Fields of membership, things like that. And you’ll notice that we do not have every single credit union, uh, in the us. In our data.
Doug English: Yeah. 286, uh, 286 credit unions this year. Yes.
Sharon Messmore: Yes. So what we would be encouraging you to do is using not only our data, but other [00:02:00] data, you know, looking around so that you’re getting a good full picture of what it looks like nationwide. Um, and then once you have that, you need to be thinking about, you know, what is your.
Value for the organization in terms of not only what you’re bringing with your, uh, role, but also how you’ve had an impact on the members this past year. And so you wanna be thinking about that membership piece and how are you going to serve the members in the best way, uh, with what you’re doing for the next year in terms of using that money?
Well.

Participation & Consistency Over Time

Doug English: Hmm, now you’re on, you’re getting into compensation philosophy, which I, I had questions about that. So, uh, uh, 286, uh, member, uh, participating in the survey, is that kind of a normal number? Is that higher than average, you know, higher or lower than average? Is that, is that, is that a normal figure for your surveys over the years?
Sharon Messmore: It’s, uh, it’s fairly [00:03:00] consistent with surveys over the years. It’s a little bit lower than, um, past couple. And so of course every year we’re always looking for new ways to try and get that number back up to where we would like it to be, which is much higher. We’d love to get all of the credit unions.
Doug English: Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s hard, it’s very time, you know, it’s, it’s a, there’s a time element and they get asked.
Many times yes. Right. To fill out surveys is, is, uh, you know, is there any sort of, has there been any sort of, uh, project to try to have a central warehouse of the data that, uh, that truly was industrywide that could be shared by credit unions as a credit uniony thing to do to, to, uh, to kind of collect the data and, and do a, an industry thing?
Is there any, anything ever been discussed about that?

On a Centralized Industry Dataset

Sharon Messmore: We’ve not been in any, any conversations around one, one data set for all credit unions. Um, yeah, [00:04:00] who would own that? That could be really, but, uh,
Doug English (2): be a heck of a project.
Sharon Messmore: Yeah. There’s also the idea of even if we get that, well, what about banks and fintechs and others?
You wanna be competitive. You wanna be comparing to those. So, uh, it’d be, it’s even a bigger project than just the credit union space. We need the, all the financial industries.
Doug English: Yeah, I, I guess that makes sense. ’cause that’s all who you’re competing with for talent
Doug English (2): too,
Doug English: right? Yes. Uh, so there’s, there’s a lot of detail that, uh, we don’t have enough time to cover today as far as, uh, you know, the, the degrees and male and female.
And, uh, one of the things that I thought was really interesting, I’ve always, um, uh, enjoyed the, the fact that the variable comp. Is directly correlated, strongly correlated, uh, with credit union size, uh, right as, as you go up. Um, it really, it really gets to be a substantial, uh, part of the comp. [00:05:00] Um, you can you talk at, at all about those, uh, details as far as, uh, how you see.
That, um, correlation. And then is there any, is there a trend like this? We just have the one year data, so we don’t have, like maybe if you’re a full subscriber, you get access to the previous year’s data. Is, is that an increasing trend? Is the variable comp, uh, component going up at smaller credit union sizes?
Are you seeing anything like that?

Variable Compensation & Asset Size

Sharon Messmore: We do always see every year that compensation is tied to that asset size. So the larger you are, the more compensation is tied to that. And as we are seeing credit union compensation increasing every year, uh. I ha I don’t have the exact data point, but I think we can reasonably and safely assume that that is across all asset sizes, that a 50 million credit union 10 years ago has increased [00:06:00] in a similar way to a larger one.
Doug English (2): Exactly.
Sharon Messmore: We’re seeing that that change is happening and that’s certainly something. To keep an eye on and be aware of.
It’s not just that base salary, but what are you doing elsewhere Within the credit union?
Doug English (2): Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Median CEO Compensation Trend Questions

Doug English: The, the, I noticed that the median CEO comp rose a 5.9% in 25. Uh, and that was, uh, 5.1% increase in, in, uh, base plus. Bonus and a, um, 7.6% gain in base salary. What, how, how did, how are those two different numbers? Can you you explain that part? No,
Sharon Messmore: I dunno that I can. Okay. That’s, that. I have knowledge to explain that.
Doug English: That’s perfectly fine. So add it over. We’re gonna get rid of that question. Uh, and we will, uh, we will, uh, so I’ll, I’ll go again and say. So median, uh, CEO total [00:07:00] comp rose, 5.9% in 2025. And I, I’m used to, uh, uh, about a 7%, uh, rate of growth in CEO comp.
Uh, maybe I’m wrong, but I think that’s what I’ve seen in past Sur Q surveys. Uh, over the years. So, uh, maybe a, a 1% slowdown, uh, in, in the median total comp, if, if my memory serves about what that number is. Does that resonate for you, Sharon? Does that sound right? That it’s a slight decrease in, uh, the rate of increase
Sharon Messmore: on that, on that median?
Yes. Yeah. Um, for average, we see a quite larger jump. Um, base salary is staying about the same for that median amount, but then total compensation did go down slightly from what we’re used to seeing.
Doug English: Right, the total, total, total increase in compensation. Yes. Not actually decrease, sorry.
Sharon Messmore: Yes. Total increase.
That would be, that’d
Doug English: be a whole different conversation, wouldn’t it?

Roles with Faster Increases Than CEO

But some, um, some roles went up a [00:08:00] good bit faster than the CEO. Uh, can you talk about any of those, uh, sort of highlight roles where they, where their pay rate went up quicker, uh, than the, uh, senior executive.
Sharon Messmore: Yes. So that chief administrative and operating officer had quite a large increase, uh, chief operations officer.
And then, uh, some other roles that we see, perhaps maybe having some more specialized training involved with them, such as risk and, um, legal have an increases there. Uh,
Doug English: yeah. Didn’t legal go down? I saw legal go down and I was like, wait, did, did I read that? I was looking at
Sharon Messmore: the HR line. Yes, legal went down, HR went up to that 10%.
I was looking for those 10% numbers. Uh,
Doug English: yeah, I, I was, I was really, really surprised by that, an actual decrease. So a 9% median increase in, uh, base salary, but a 15% rise in total [00:09:00] comp. For the chief administration, chief Operating Officer, any idea what’s behind that role getting such a change?
Sharon Messmore: Uh, only speculation.
Uh, we don’t have any,
Doug English: we welcome speculation here, Sharon, and we welcome that.
Sharon Messmore: Yes. My, my speculation is historically we think of the CFO as the main person for succession planning. Mm-hmm. I think we might be starting to see some trends in the chief administrative officer being leaned on in that role as well.
Doug English: Interesting. Interesting. So maybe shrinking the spread between the CEO comp, uh, and the chief Chief Administration officer comp. Mm-hmm. Uh, very interesting. And then as, as we, uh, as you mentioned a minute before, actually, legal counsel executives reported a median decrease of 4.6% in total comp. And now I’m, that, that’s, that’s just really.
Unusual to see an actual decrease. Is that [00:10:00] like a statistical aberration, do we think? Or is that a actual pay cut?
Sharon Messmore: I, it’s, it’s hard to know. Um, again, because this is same sample, we can’t just say fewer legal executives and that’s why, um, so there’s not that many
Doug English: to begin with. Right. It’s only the very largest, I bet you that’s a tiny sample size.
’cause there’s so, so few credit unions that have a, a legal officer.
Sharon Messmore: Yes. So I think that may, that just may be an indication that people are possibly combining roles, including legal in somewhere else or, um, you know, starting to think of that role no longer as an executive and kinda moving it out of that range.

Variable Pay as a Retention Lever & Governance

Doug English: Yeah. One, one of the, the, the key sentences I noticed in the survey was. Um, considerations for compensation planning results indicate the credit unions are increasingly using variable pay as a lever to retain and motivate senior talent, especially in lending operations and [00:11:00] compliance boards should ensure that bonus plans remain clearly linked to measurable performance and sustainable growth.
Regularly reviewing incentive structure along base salary benchmarks can help balance competitiveness, accountability, and predictability. Uh, and that, excuse me, that’s an interesting, um, detail. ’cause I think in, in the executives that, that I work for, you know, we, we see a lot of, a lot of folks without a, um.
A contract, an an amazing number of executives without a contract, and amazing with, uh, a number, with kind of an informal compensation structure, even in billion dollar plus, uh, credit unions. So this, this idea that boards would make sure that the bonus plans are linked. Specifically to those designed outcomes is one that makes a lot of sense, but I think is, is maybe not as [00:12:00] prevalent as it should be.
Any, any thoughts on, um, on the spread between those two areas or how uh, uh, a credit union executive that things they might have that situation might start to have a dialogue about something different?
Sharon Messmore: I mean, I think it’s so important that there are clear and structured plans, not only to help the board know how to plan out their finances, but also speaking for myself from a younger generation, as we’re more and more in the workforce, uh, our generation and the generations below us value a lot of.
Pay transparency. Mm-hmm. And having that formal plan in place is going to really help when you’re speaking with more people coming into the workforce who really care about transparency and want to see. Why people are being paid, what they’re being paid, and having that direct correlation is going to be really helpful.
So that [00:13:00] could be a starting point. You know, I know credit unions are always thinking about how are we reaching younger people? How are we getting younger people in? Uh, well, if you have younger employees. And they know that there’s good pay transparency and they understand the values of the credit union.
That’s going to be a big draw that’s going to help. Um, and then also it’s going to be helpful as you’re thinking about succession planning and mm-hmm. Trying to get people in place. It’s not just, well, this is what we paid the last person because. They had good vibes. It’s uh, this is what we’re paying them and these are the expectations we’ll have of you.
And then you can have that roadmap for training them up into those expectations as well.
Doug English: Transparency, consistency. So good corporate policies.

CEO Trends Page Highlights

So it, it, continuing on down in the survey, there’s a CEO trends page that is my personal favorite, I must say. Uh, and let, let’s talk a little bit about that, uh, increasing.
Eligibility for bonuses [00:14:00] didn’t surprise me. You know, and then 95% or something of credit unions are, have a bonus program. I’m like, I’ve never seen one that doesn’t have, there’s only like four, I guess, that don’t have a bonus program. It’s, it’s, uh, interesting. Uh, average, A CEO, uh, bonus rows from $102,000 in 24 to 109,025.
Uh, median bonus amounts rising as well. And the, the, the increases of the bonus were largest at the largest credit unions. That doesn’t, that doesn’t seem shocking to me. Right. That makes sense. Uh, car allowances is a, is a popular, uh, um, program that continues, uh, about 70% of credit unions getting a, a car allowance, uh, of about a thousand dollars a month.
Uh, which, which sort of makes sense for the cost of vehicles, uh, uh, these days. Uh, and then, uh, you know, there’s numerous other details on there, but those are the ones I’m used to [00:15:00] seeing. Uh, I, I like it when they also get financial planning paid for, you know, personal reasons, uh, but, uh, car allowance, salary bonus.
Uh, sometimes, uh, you’ll get some kind of a club, a membership club allowance. Uh, sometimes I’ll see long-term care insurance provided. I love to see medical, uh, retiree medical is something I’m starting to see in large credit unions, uh, when, when you separate from service after a certain number of years, you can continue on the, on the group medical plan.
Are, are you capturing that data in the survey? Sharon, are you seeing anything around retiree medical plans?
Sharon Messmore: Uh, not a lot. We have information around retirement and benefits, things along those lines, but, um, we’re not, we’re not paying attention to trends in those, that’s not part of something that we’ve pulled out.
So I don’t have any details there. I
Doug English: think it would be a small, uh, small group similar to the, uh, the [00:16:00] le the lawyers that are getting pay cuts in credit unions. Uh, the number of folks that get the retiree medical. I don’t think it’s a lot. But it’s a valuable benefit if you’re gonna retire at 62 and you can’t get Medicare yet, uh uh, you gotta go into the Obamacare pool, which, uh, is a pretty great program, but is gonna go up massively next year, you know, as a result of the, the big beautiful bill.

Employment Contracts & Governance

So let’s, uh, move forward to contracts. Uh, I, I, I couldn’t believe this number. Uh, in 20 19, 40 3% of CEOs had contact contracts in 24, it’s only gotten up to 52%, 54%. Finally, uh, this year. Amazing to me that a, a large organization with, with, uh, this kind of scale, uh, and informality, uh, would not have employment contracts any.
Thoughts around that, [00:17:00] about what’s happening there? That it’s an increase, but it’s a really slow rate of increase. And again, personally with the, the, the many credit unions we work for, it, it is almost the norm for me to not see contracts. Uh, and, and I, I, I worry that that lack of formality could permeate some of the other board governance, uh, related issues.
Mm-hmm. Um, what thoughts do you have?
Sharon Messmore: Yeah, I think both because it is growing. That’s a, that’s a good, that’s
Doug English: good. Yeah, that’s good thing
Sharon Messmore: there. Um, I could, I, again, I could make a bunch of wild speculations. I don’t know if I’m the right person. That’d be great Press,
Doug English: great press, Sharon, if you wanna do that.
That’s, that’s all right. Um, yeah, I, I know one of the, it says strategic considerations for boards is that the contracts have clear performance metrics, periodic reviews, well-defined termination [00:18:00] provisions. Uh, you know, I, I, we, we see.
You know, spend a lot of time analyzing and projecting executive comp structures and, um, you know, the, the, uh, the split dollar benefits and 4 57 F plans that you see in credit unions.
You know, those are hugely impactful and they generally have. Uh, a contract around them. Uh, and, I, I think those are pre present in more than 54% of the credit unions. I, I think that’s, that’s a pretty safe statement. Uh, it’s just surprising to me that there would be a contract around the executive comp sub portion of the overall compensation, but not around the employment, uh, of the senior executive.
Uh, and a disconnect that I, at least I don’t currently understand.

Succession Planning Discussion

Um, and then into succession planning. Right? A big, big topic. NCUA focus. Uh, a lot of credit unions are formalizing as is required their success of [00:19:00] succession planning outcomes. Uh, and, uh, that seems like another thing that, uh.
Uh, the 56-year-old average CEO is, uh, is, has gotta be, uh, taking a formal process to, and that, uh, employment contract that, uh, you know, I, I was talking to a CEO this week who said that he might, he’s been a 35 years, there is no employment contract. There’s never been an employment contract, and he might go about putting one in solely for the purpose.
Of his successor having a more formalized, uh, uh, relationship with the board and, and compensation philosophy. mm-hmm. Uh, uh, I imagine you don’t wanna take that any further, do you, Sharon?
Sharon Messmore: I love to talk about succession planning.
Uh, I think that’s a great idea for him to be doing that and to be taking the initiative, because sometimes what we see with succession planning is that the.
Person whose [00:20:00] succession is being planned might start to get a little jumpy if you start talking about succession planning and they start to say, well, why, why are we talking about this now?
I’m still planning to be here another five years. Uh oh. But you need or in volunteer five years to, to make that happen. Well, at at least, right? And so.
Having, having those contracts is going to be helpful. Thinking about that compensation is going to be helpful. Having those tied, you know, bonus items that we were talking about, all of those things are all key for succession planning and making sure that all the people you’re planning to be succeeding are, uh, still at your credit union.
When then it’s time for them to step into those roles.

How to Access the Survey & Portal

Doug English: So I, I, if you are a CUES member, does the entire, uh, survey get, uh, mailed or emailed to you or what’s the, you know, it, it’s a very noisy world, right? There’s tons of, uh, of messaging going out. Uh, maybe some of our listeners are [00:21:00] CUES members, but don’t see this data come.
Where is it? Where should you look for it? Uh, uh, help us to understand where to find it.
Sharon Messmore: Yes. If you are a CUES Unlimited Plus member, this comes as part of your membership and we don’t send things out to you because we know things get lost in the mail. Mm-hmm. And you, you’re not going to see an email with A PDF.
Um, we have a reporting portal that’s housed on our website that you can go into and you can pull.
Any report at any time with any configuration you’d like. Uh, so able to go in, just get that data. If you just wanna see the CEO, if you’re just looking at setting, you know, you wanna see the legal information, you can go in, you can pull that, you can pull for previous years as well if you wanted to look at trends.
Um, and then we als also offer it as a purchase where you would be able to do the same things if you purchased a subscription.
Doug English: Is there a, uh, uh, a, um, auto [00:22:00] feature where you could, uh, email your queues, uh, a friend, uh, and say, uh, uh, I, I, I’d like to know the data for, uh, hr, uh, chief HR officers, uh, for credit unions my size.
Uh, is that something the CUES provides or do you need to, to research that data yourself?
Sharon Messmore: Uh, they would be able to do it, self-service. Go right in and say. Open up that portal, say Chief HR Officer, um, this asset range, and it’ll spit it right back out. If they’re looking for something more customized, you know, if they want an aged report or something like that, we can handle those on a case by case basis.
Doug English: Now, don’t I remember from a survey, uh, an, uh, a podcast we did. You, you and I did like two or three years ago with the, uh, industry insights folks that you guys have a, or had a calculator on your website right, where you could actually go and get a calculation done. Does it? Can, is that still there? And, [00:23:00] and does that include this data?
Sharon Messmore: Uh, we did have that. It is not there currently. Ah. Um, we are, we are doing a lot right now to rethink what does the survey look like for 2026. And so part of that involves, you know, custom benchmark type reporting that we’ll be able to provide, um, some rethinking of what the position descriptions are, and particularly when we think about.
A smaller size credit union versus larger and who’s doing roles and what those titles are. So we’re doing a lot to rework and rethink. And so the calculator is not something that is a current availability, but there’ll be a lot of features going into next year that we’re excited about.
Doug English: If you’re not a CUES member, but you respond to the survey, do you end up getting free access to the data?
Does it, does it work like that?
Sharon Messmore: Uh, participants receive a discount if they choose to purchase.
Doug English: So you, you get rewarded for [00:24:00] the time it takes you to fill out the survey. ’cause that’s, I imagine, an effective tool of recruiting folks to fill out the survey. So. Very good.

Outro

Well, Sharon, uh, thank you, uh, and the CUES organization for the work that you do to support the credit union industry.
I think this is a key data point to figure out how to make sure your comp is on target, uh, for the industry norms. Uh, and in line with your strategic goals and ideally designed to have those metrics that line up with where you want your credit union to go. So, uh, with that said, have a great rest of 2025 and thank you so much, Sharon.
Sharon Messmore: Thank you.