How Credit Union Boards Can Renew Themselves to Drive Stronger Governance Performance

Welcome Back + Today’s Topic: Board Renewal

 Peter Myers, welcome back to see You on the show. Delighted to see you again. We, uh, in our warmup to today’s talk, as always, we talk about the CrossFitting and how. Peter and I may, uh, have a CrossFit workout at GAC this year. Boom, all are

invited. You wanna all are invited. Get like

Peter Myers.

You gotta, uh, uh, work out with Doug and Peter Myers at GAC 2026. Uh, but before that today we were gonna talk about board renewal. With Peter Myers and we get a little bit of an inside look at the consulting work that you and Didi uh, do. So Peter, welcome back. Tell me, un unpack. What’s, what are you talking about?

Board renewal. What do you mean?

You know, it’s, it’s interesting time that we’re in right now. Um, we’re seeing more board members roll off of transition off the board, fa at a faster clip than ever before. Um, this is a time for boards to go. What’s next for us, right? We have the CEO position changing all the time.

So, so what I want, what I thought we could talk about Doug, is like, how could a board do this, right? Or the kinds of common topics that they have, or questions like, how do we go to the next level? How do we renew ourselves? So I was thinking we talk a little bit about that.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know, uh, you, you got a presentation deck that we can look at and really use this as a, as a learning experience for our listeners who tend to be executives, but maybe this session they would share with their board.

Is that what you’re thinking, Peter?

If they wanna watch two handsome, funny, smart guys go back and forth, then they can share this all they want. Yeah.

I’m sorry Peter, you just broke up. I wasn’t able.

No, I think it’s a good, you know, we’re always one of our main strategies and orientations as a company.

DDJ is like content education first. Oh. Like rich and relevant content that educates the market. If we all get a little bit better. Then we’re winning. If you want to go to the next, next level, great. Give, give us a call. And, and I can’t tell you how often we have people go, Hey, I read that article, or I use this thing.

And I’m like, excellent. Good. Call us when you’re ready to like re, you know, maximize it. So that’s what I thought we could do. I think it’s a great platform for us to do it.

Defining Board Performance and Board Alignment

All right. Well, so my first question is starting at the top. When, when you talk about board performance.

Yeah.

What do you mean?

Yeah.

Um, let me tell you a little bit about what. Um, it’s, uh, it’s a hard question to answer because boards can, there’s 4,500 credit unions out there and they can all have a little bit different definition of performance. So what we have here, and I’ll share my screen, is like, I call it operating parameters.

Like let’s just get clear on how we are going to define certain things. So if we say board, I’m gonna talk about board alignment and board performance. Board alignment is the degree to which we address and align on the most strategically relevant issues. I’m gonna unpack it just a little bit. Um, when we say the degree to which, what we’re saying is like, how deep do you go?

Do you go surface level, right, address and align on are we unpacking it and, uh, addressing and then aligning and decisioning on certain kinds of things, the most strategically relevant issues? What we’re saying there is today’s content. The most strategically relevant content for a board to discuss today will be different than in three years from now.

Is different than it was three years ago. And so what we’re trying to say is, alright, do you have a mechanism, a process for board renewal to then align on these things as they come up or as proactively you want to address it, which is different. And you said board performance, which I love. Um, how do you define performance for a board of a not-for-profit organization?

It’s a little hard. Here’s what we would offer. If you were a board and you wanted to say, how do we perform? We would say the measurement of their governing impact, meaning they have policy decisions, and what is the measurable output of that or impact of that on the org’s performance, or how effectively does a board declare and frame priorities?

Just had this conversation this week with the board. This is important and this is important. They both can’t be the most important. So let’s talk through that. And then there’s third, fourth, fifth, et cetera kind of priorities. How do we work through those? So the effectiveness that they declare, this is number one, and this is number five, for example, and then how they work, um, how well they are, how effective, um, the efficacy of their fiduciary, are they making sure we’re doing the right thing for the money?

This is what we would say as board performance. Um, I’m gonna offer you something Doug, if you’re okay with it here. It does not mean board alignment does not mean ah, well, but you know, we agree on everything, right? Which is really like the notable as absence of disagreement. I can’t tell you how often we’ve had boards go.

Yeah, we’re very aligned. We’re very aligned, and I’m like, well, when’s the last time you, you know, disagreed on something? I don’t know. You don’t, 2015, you know, or whatever they might say. Right? They, it’s a bit, a little while every single time that a board tells me that when we dive deeper, again, that’s the degree to which we dive deeper into it.

There’s some spots where there’s, friction’s not the right word, but like, Hey, I don’t feel aligned on this, or I don’t feel aligned on that. But they just aren’t saying it necessarily. Mm-hmm. Or they don’t have the platform or what, whatever the reason might be. Alright. Now how about this one, uh, board performance?

It does not mean, and I’ve literally heard this probably 30 times in my career. Well, obviously the organization put in huge points on the board, so obviously we’re successful and it’s not quite the same. Right, because you can have an ineffective board, but still a well performed organization. It’s not ideal.

I wouldn’t recommend it, but those are, those are some definitions that we use to. To operate. So I’m curious your, your perspective on ’em, Doug.

Examples of Misalignment: CEO Compensation and Governance Impact

I would be interested in examples as always, and you know, if you can say names, great. If you can’t, that’s fine too of when you’ve seen these things. Like I, I, I, I, I saw a board and, uh, the, I knew it wasn’t aligned and here’s what I noticed.

Uh, and then, and then the other side.

Um, I’ll give you one that I was talking about talking with about the CEO with this morning. So it’s as fresh as I can. I won’t name names, but it’s about compensation and, you know, compensation, uh, surprise surprises, a sensitive topic.

Mm-hmm.

And this organization has a declared, uh, comp philosophy and.

Um, a declared comp philosophy that does not match with what their organization’s performance is, meaning they think the CEO is excellent, but they only want to pay at the market price.

The midpoint. They wanna, I, I have heard so many CEOs tell me they only wanna pay me at the midpoint, and they wanna make sure our performance is in the top, uh, quartile.

Yeah. And so it’s really just like, all right, so we gotta unpack that a little bit and, and in this particular instance, uh, we do compensation research for them and advise ’em on comp philosophy and, but it’s a board’s decision, right? The board’s decision. I think the problem in this institution here is that they have a.

Disconnective ineffective CO performance evaluation and a incentive scorecard, both of which, um, we’re not a part of. And I think that’s part of the problem, is that they’re disjointed from how they decide the decisioning process. For pay. And so that’s, that’s the conversation that we’re in this morning is like the organization’s successful, but the, the performance of the board is having a governing impact where the CEO may choose to leave.

Oh, wow. Which is, and and that’s a, the, if that were the case, let me kind of fast forward it. Then you can outside objectively go, okay, that was not a performing board. They didn’t do one, two, and three, et cetera. So that it has a measure measurable impact on the organization.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there’s, that’s, that’s probably a difficult journey for you to get the board to go down.

Like you’re engaged with the CEO, you said? Uh, well, so

I was just chatting with the CEO. We are engaged with the board on, on doing comp research, but I think what we’re going to do, and, and you know, as a consultant, it’s a little. Tricky. Like we’re trying to stay in our, we, you know, we stay in our lane, but um.

Also Deedee and I, our company, we’re not really known for staying in our lane. Like we’re kind of break the

lanes sometimes. Well, you are the first one to bring, bring a presentation to see you on the show. So I Staying, not staying in your lane. I like it. I like it. Hey, you know what? It’s, don’t change it.

I think that’s a great example. So what we’re gonna do in this instance is go, hey, board. You’re not asking for opinion on this. Can I offer one still though, here’s some free consulting. We should, you should take a look at this, take a look at this, et cetera, et cetera. It, it’s gonna help you. Right? And if you want to help work with this, that’s great, but I think you need to have this, the degree to which they align on the most important and strategically relevant issues.

That’s something they’re not aligning on very well.

Why Board Turnover and Renewal Are Accelerating

Well, what, what’s, I mean, you said that there, you’re seeing more board turnover now. Than I assume ever. Uh, what do you think is behind that? What’s behind this renewal? Uh, is the CEO changing or is it the, just the aging of the baby boomers? What, what is this?

I, I love, I love the question because, you know, I, I started thinking about this in preparation, in our conversation, like, what, what, what are some of the driving factors? Um, and I, and I’m gonna kind of put it into a couple of categories. Um, one is when a board starts to say. Hey, let’s be in a renewal conversation.

And maybe they don’t use that word. There’s an internal or usually an external kind of force. Okay, so let’s say there’s a, uh, an internal or external force that like awakens a perspective like, ooh. We gotta kind of do something about this. Um, the internal is when there is transition in the chair role, or massive transitions on the board.

So in January I worked at the board, uh, because half the board was brand spanking new. They had three, four people roll off last year, or, you know, resign from the board for all, all kinds of various reasons. And the board found itself in a position of like. We gotta go to the next level. What does that look like?

Hey, we’re new. Some of you’re seasoned. What is that? So there was transition. Part of that too is because of the generational things like baby boomers are now, uh, well into retirement. Many of them. The, the, I think the youngest baby boomers, you, you probably know this better than me, Doug, are at that retirement age-ish.

Right there for someone, if they’re working with you, maybe they can retire sooner. Is that right?

I like it. I, uh, potentially I, I make no promises, but, uh, the odds are, well, it’s an

expense conversation too, right? The odds are in your

favor.

Yeah. Yeah. So, alright, so there’s that. Um, or when A CEO transitions, so I just, yesterday again, I’m in a CEO performance evaluation conversation with the board.

Uh, the board chair and I debriefed afterwards, and one of the, the, the challenges that this organization found itself in is that the last couple of years with its prior CEO, is that there’s just a lot of tension. And I, and I said to the board chair and I said, look, I’m just gonna be real straight with you.

I think the absence of doing an evaluation like we’re doing now, probably created an environment where there’s a lot of friction. And so the board needs to look at taking this opportunity with this new CEO and going, alright. Let’s not make those mistakes again. That’s one mistake. Let’s, let’s do some other, let’s get to a renewal conversation.

Um, I’ll, I’ll another, a third kind of variable internal, like in, uh, stimulus I would say is that the strategy of the organization’s not performing right. And we had this, this is maybe about two years ago now. I had a board chair call who was the exec committee board chair called and said, Hey, I wanna find out about your, your CEO performance evaluation.

I’m like, okay, that’s great. I’m happy to sell those kinds of things, but let’s just make sure it’s the right thing for you. Make sure we’re the right partner. Tell me what’s going on. And he is like, we’re just not performing. I mean, what do you mean? And, and I already knew, I looked at their numbers and this is B, they had negative ROA before, like it was cool, you know, the, you know, the last like year or so, a lot of organizations, a lot of credit risk hitting the balance sheet, all that I, and I get a lot of organizations are still earning money, but hey, there’s losses.

Um, but this was a year before all that happened, and they’re like, we don’t know if that’s right. Or, you know, the, our CEO says it’s common. And I, I said, I pulled up our dashboard and I said, it’s not, you’re the only one in your market that’s got negative 40 basis points, ROA And that’s, that’s bad, especially since you’re shrinking too.

Like it was really bad.

Mm-hmm. So, anyways,

long, long story short, the board. The board, the board had to go through some really hard conversations with themself because they, um, were culpable in not in overseeing the CEO properly and the strategies performance. So that’s an, an internal kind of stimulus. Um, and another ex externally.

Regulators come in and they go, Hey, you guys are ineffective, or you know, you’re a knucklehead. Why are you on the board? Or you know, you’ve got these people leading these portions of the business and they’re not qualified or whatever. That is very rare, like I think for the regulators to flex. In those instances, it’s kind of egregious.

To be honest, Doug, I think there’s probably one or two or more instances they could do that to kind of flex their muscle, um, on there. Um, or the landscape shifts, right? Maybe a sponsor company for a, a sag, um, a sponsor company for a credit union. Maybe they shift. Those are all reasons for a board to go, oh, we should take a look at this thing.

And, and I’ll say, I’ll kind of end this point with, those are reactive circumstances. What I didn’t mention there is like a board saying, Hey, let’s, let’s get in a conversation about evolving regularly. So I can talk more about that if you wanted, but that’s a long way. No,

Why Assessments Matter for “Nebulous” Governance Issues

I want, I want you to, to go into, you know, he called you, he or she called you because they, I think they were looking at an assessment, um, and yeah.

I wonder, you know, you had that conversation, you figured out that the, uh, ROA was, uh, negative, they were having, uh, significant performance issues. I, I’d love to know, you know, where did that go? And then let’s talk about assessments more like, yeah. Is that, is that where that went and how did they use those?

Like, I, I think that the assessment idea is really. Uh, a critical one to kinda get some data around this super nebulous stuff. Like, which one are you? Right? Yeah. You can tell if you have negative R-O-I-R-O-A, but you can’t tell if you’re just, you know, not being as effective as you could be.

Yeah.

You’re, you’re, you’re being somewhat effective but not as effective as you could be.

So tell me about that.

Yeah, so in, in that particular instance, that story or case study, I might say is, is more an anomaly, but we get ’em like every 18 months. Where, and so I’ve had one even more recent than that, that story where, where the, the board may not have access or insight into how do I objectively rank us, right?

Because usually their source of information is from the CEO and, and sometimes that’s maybe heavily curated. Again, these are kind of dramatic examples. But from a best practice standpoint, I still think the highest performing organizations, too many of ’em, aren’t looking at as much competitive analysis data as they could.

And that’s where, you know, we try to equip boards with, Hey, we, we’ll, we’ll show you. We got a cool dashboard. And we show them, Hey look, this is where you’re stacked. This is, let’s, let’s define the peer group that you want.

The CU KPI Dashboard: Competitive Benchmarking in Practice

How, how do you do that? Can you show us one of those? Like, um, that’s something you’re ready for, but like, how would you, that’s very interesting.

I don’t understand how you could do that.

Alright, this is, this is exclusive. Um, exclusive. See you

on the show.

You heard here, see you on the show. This is not what I was prepared to chat about, but, but I am gonna chat about it ’cause I am pretty excited about it. So this is a, um, for right now this is, it’s called beta here.

So our CU industry, KPI dashboard. So this is all the call report data put into a, uh, data warehouse that is lightning speed and it’s got prebuilt kinds of things to work through and look at. Competitively where we are. And so, uh, I’m just gonna, I’m, I’m gonna just randomly go down here and lemme just pick like a, uh, I’ve never heard of Evanston Fireman’s Credit Union, but they’re, let’s just do this one.

So they’re 2 million. This is, we’ll pick on a $2 million institution, but I can look at ’em over the last 13 years. What’s their performance been over this? It’s like, okay, they had a bunch of COVID money. We had ROA, it’s going on here. Like, they haven’t really grown literally in the last 13 years. Here we are at 2 million, just under 2 million in assets.

And 13 years ago we’re at the exact same kind of performance. So again, I’m picking on this one ’cause I, I don’t think they’ll watch the, this show, but this is a good conversation for the board to look at what’s been happening with our growth. How about membership growth? Okay. They’ve got 150 members that is less than what they had over time.

And I’ll, and I’ll put it this way, I’ll put it this way, Doug, that, that if you think about a, a percentile, a hundred percentile, in my experience, the bottom quartile of percentile organizations, boards don’t realize that they’re in that bottom quartile.

Mm-hmm.

The top quartile, I think, realize that they are part and parcel because they go.

Let’s take a look at our strategy. Let’s look at the competitive analysis. Let’s get in this rigorous, again, the degree to which they address and align on the strategically relevant issues. So that is, whenever I show that to boards, um, they usually go, okay, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let’s, let’s spend some more time there.

Let’s dive deeper into it. So that kind of reveals a conversation.

When Strong Results Hide Governance Gaps

Yeah. I, I got questions. So, because that, that was really interesting. I love, I love some numbers. Uh, so the. Seems like your market, uh, and, and your exec team could be causing those numbers to be potentially great. Uh, and, and, and yet you, you have that Yes.

Uh, silence, uh, in the boardroom maybe where everyone just kind of goes along because they’re seeing great performance. But you’d said earlier that that doesn’t necessarily mean you are. You’re functioning, uh, as a, as a top end board. So how do you, where do you go from there? Is there another level that says, all right, this is a great board and getting great results.

The Board Leadership Dojo: Creating a Learning Culture

Yeah. So let me, I’m gonna do what I typically do, Doug, which is a long-winded answer, but I gotta kind of build up to it, if you don’t mind. And it’s kind, it’s a little bit just a, as a precursor here, you, you give a guy like me a, a microphone and, and I’ll just take it and I’ll run with it and I’ll just, I love it.

Let’s talk about it.

Go.

I love doing this work. Okay. So in order to get into that kind of sensitive conversation, we gotta kind of build up to it to say, Hey, board. Let’s get out of this performance conversation first and let’s get into a learning conversation. And so what we say is let’s get into what we call a border leadership dojo.

Um, a dojo is Japanese word for place of training or place of awakening, and so I got kind of a whole long spiel about it, but I’m just gonna say. Hey boards, we’re gonna get into a learning conversation to help move the organization forward. That’s the operative idea. So it’s a place that we’re learning concept skills.

How do we, as a board, not Peter, but how do we as a board define high performing? ’cause every organization’s a little different. And then what it requires is that people have full participation and retention of information, meaning. Like, we’re gonna say this thing and you gotta apply it in future conversations.

That’s the idea.

Mm-hmm.

And, and I’ll hit this, I’ll hit these kind of two points down here. Lemme turn my pen on. Unbiased teacher. What’s really cool about our job is like I got kind of a clean objective, right? I’m try here to help you move forward. I’m not trying to like pick on you or pick on her or build this thing up.

That’s too messy. I don’t play that politics game. I’m here to help the organization move forward. What that requires from us is to then provide some feedback. Sometimes that maybe doesn’t sound great, but like, that’s honestly what you’re paying me for. You’re paying me for my opinion to help you move forward.

And then, and then I got the students and learners highlighted here. So if there’s a teacher. Usually people go, well, there must be students. And what we say is, look, well, you know, we can all be students, but we all can’t necessarily, we’re not all learners. And the story I tell is that when I was a senior in high school, again, this is not one of my proudest moments, Doug, but I was in, uh, English lit class.

And I was like, when am I gonna, um, beowulf? Like what’s the relevance to Beowulf in my life in the future? I’m like, and, and in the wisdom of my 17 year oldness, I decided right then and there I was like, I don’t need this and I’m gonna do everything I can to not do work in this class, but still like decently pass.

And so I was a student, but not a learner. Her Now, what happened in this class? Well, I had my, at that time, girl that I was fort with eventually came to my girlfriend. She gave me her homework and I just turned it in. You know, that was great. You know, all those things. So I was crafty. I was skillful in a way, some traits that I’m not necessarily proud of, you know, but, but that’s happened.

So we say to the board, you gotta be learners, you gotta be active. And we define learners when we go through this. Okay? Yeah. So when we go through this, then it gets into a. Um, you mentioned board alignment, so let’s align on, well, what are we gonna align on? And let me show you this. So we have an assessment.

You mentioned an assessment. This is a little bit more pa, not a little bit, a lot more palatable way for boards to engage in a performance alignment conversation. How do we get to the next level? Because we’re assessing the board. I’m not pointing my finger at Doug, right? I’m not. Or we’re not or each other aren’t.

So we look at like, okay, well what are we gonna measure? So we look at categories, let’s look at these best practice categories, and then we have a valued of content inside of them. Deliver it dug in a dashboard so that they can play with it. And I honestly, that’s probably one of the best features of it.

’cause it’s not a 35 page PDF that you gotta go and read through and no one really likes, I don’t like it. Um, so they work through this conversation and the, and then one of the things that inevitably comes up, inevitably comes up is we’re not on, in, in those instances that we were asking earlier, we’re not aligned on the strategy or we’re not overseeing effectively overseeing the CEO.

Okay, now let’s talk about how to get there. What do you need to do on the board? What are the skill sets we need? Um, lemme just talk about that for a second. I think. A safe way to be in a succession conversation is to go what are the technical proficiencies or as we like to call ’em, functional domain expertises we need on the board in the future.

And what do we have today? Um, one board I worked with, seven outta nine of them were CPAs. They had a lot of accounting experience. So we, so if we were to go to, if, if one of ’em transitioned off and we wanted to kind of advertise or recruit or however we wanted to, you know, nominate someone, we probably wouldn’t be looking for another CPA.

Mm-hmm. Fair enough. Okay, great. Well, what would we be looking for? And so we have a list and I’ll show you, I’ll show you the list here. We got a whole list. I think it’s like 30 something functional domain expertises. Of course now you gotta have ai, right? You gotta have AI on there. Another one you gotta have on there is cybersecurity.

Um, and so what we, we say, this is the list, and we have a whole definitions of these, but it’s good for boards to go What is important to our strategy? So that we can understand it effective, right? And support the organization in, in deploying that strategy. Uh, and so this is a representation of those skills.

So, again, my long-winded answer, I think to your question,

I’ve forgotten the question. This point, Peter,

I, I kind of forgot the question too. You were asking about performance and like how do they get there and how do we measure it? Um, I think another tool that I showed you, that performance dashboard is to just show them where they stack rank inside of their peer group from some of these, these numbers.

So for example, if our, if our credit, if our asset quality numbers are going in the wrong direction, but our revenue numbers are also going in the right direction. We gotta look at that in totality, right? With membership growth, with all these things, too often I think boards will, boards and, and honestly, Doug, I think executives too, are very guilty of this, is they get kind of myopically focused, like one measurement as opposed to the, what I call the economic engine.

What, what’s happening inside the all the pieces to move this engine forward.

A Practical Action Item: Calibrate What “High Performance” Means

All right. I, I, I, I’m, I’m gonna ask you to, like, let’s give our listeners a an action item. An idea. Yeah, yeah. Like, if you’re gonna do, if you’re gonna like, question your board, uh, you know, not, not, not in a negative way, just in a, in a effectiveness way.

What, what is something that you might do, uh, you know, before year end, uh, to evaluate where you are?

I love it. Here’s, here’s what. Here’s, I didn’t know if we would get to this conversation, but I’m gonna put this up. We’re

barely making it.

We have to say, we have to ask ourselves how do we wanna run? I, I, I wrote an article over the few times, I think it was last year, you know, the characteristics, high performing executive teams, and, uh, the unedited article was like, to be clear, I had some very good editors.

More nicely word what my intent was. But the unedited article was like, Hey, not every executive team can be high performing and just like get comfortable with that. Because by definition, high performance means you stand far and above bell curve, right? Yeah. Like a bell curve, right? Yeah. Distribution. And so like if you’re mediocre, like that’s actually kind of likely and.

That’s okay. And there’s plenty. Doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. There’s plenty of people out there. It doesn’t sound great though. It doesn’t. No one is like, oh, I love objective achieved. Right, exactly. But look, we just gotta be really clear, you know, what do we want? And so to answer your question, action item from a board perspective, I’ll even say from an executive team perspective is like, let’s calibrate right?

Do we want, and, and, and we’ll, when I have this slide here to say how do we want to be in feedback with each other? To what performance do we want to be? Do we wanna be in the trophy generation? Um, where after the soccer game, everyone gets an orange slice and a, or

after the podcast, Doug sends, uh, Peter a participation trophy.

Wait, I, there you go, Peter. Go. I would love it if

you sent me one of those. I might put, I’d put it right there on my wall. Um, or do we wanna like. Olympic level performance, like world class podium, that’s what we’re after. And then there’s a rage. And to be clear, there’s only a couple of people on the podium.

This is the way it works. There’s a lot more in the middle. And there’s some ones that are on the bottom side of things. And, and, and maybe I’ll show you kind of a, my bias a little bit. Um, so I’ve always coached my kids, um, teams, whether, uh. Um, whatever the sport was a couple of years ago. Um, my youngest son’s baseball team at one, a kid, it was his first year in baseball.

It was my son’s second year. And he is like, Hey, hey, so are we gonna get some of those trophies? And I was like, and, and I, and I realized I was the only coach in, in our division that wasn’t doing that.

Hmm. He

helped me realize that. ’cause I, I’m just not oriented that way. I didn’t, I wasn’t raised that way.

I don’t raise my kids that way. And I was like, you know what buddy? Like if we won first place, I would get you a trophy. I, I didn’t say, I don’t think I said that. I said something nicer to the, to the seven or 8-year-old that he was, but I’m just not organized towards the trophy kind of side. Um, the stimulus that we have is like always going to the next level, whatever that may be.

And I think that’s a good conversation for boards to be in. It’s like. Not, Hey, the organization’s successful, so we must be, it’s like, well, how do you know you’re successful? Like, like, let’s take a deeper dive at that. So that’s my long-winded answer for that.

Closing + Where to Learn More

All right. And if, if you wanna know more about that, you go to ddj myers.com and learn more.

That’s right. And we got a new website we just rolled out in the last couple of weeks or something, which is excellent. It’s beautiful.

Excellent. Well, that dashboard you showed me was fascinating. My. Prediction is that, uh, some of our listeners are gonna see that and go, Hey, I, I, I wanna know more about that show.

What, what, what do we look like on that? What are the insights that, that you have that, uh, that I don’t have? Uh, and, um, what are the performance attributes that I want to be looking at? I, I bet you that’s gonna happen. While I’ll be in interested to see,

I, I hope they do. Um, I’ll tell you, I, we include it in our strategy programs, um, because it helps.

You know, one of the things about strategy development, I know we’re kind of wrapping up, but you just, I can’t, I can’t help myself again. I got a microphone, so I’m gonna say it is that if you want to get better at your strategy for your organization, I think one of the most helpful ways to do that is to look at the strategy of other organizations or peers or competitors, best in class, worse in class.

What are the leading lag indicators that results in where they are today? How can we deconstruct that? And then if we look at our organization a more objectively, what can we be reveal about where we’re missing it and where we’re winning? Right. And I think that that starts a really good board and executive conversation.

So.

As always, Peter Myers from DDJ Myers, thank you for your amazing content. Uh, I love the way you and Didi, uh, serve the credit union movement. Uh, really, really love the content that you bring to see you on the show. So I hope you listeners enjoy it as much as I do, and we’ll do it again, uh, in, uh, in months coming.

Thank you, Peter.

Take care, Doug. Thanks everyone.