How Credit Union Leaders Can Prepare to Serve On Boards

Home  >>  Board Service  >>  How Credit Union Leaders Can Prepare to Serve On Boards

How Credit Union Leaders Can Prepare to Serve On Boards

Serving on a board allows credit union leaders and those approaching retirement to continue advancing their mission-focused commitment, using their career experience, and making a difference in their community. However, finding and obtaining a board role, particularly a paid position, is not as simple as you may expect. Board members are strategic thought leaders who guide an organization into change rather than driving the change themselves, which may be a challenging mindset shift for many credit union leaders who previously relied on their operational capabilities.

On “C.U. On the Show,” Doug welcomes Anne Sample, CEO and owner of Navigate Forward, and Patricia Hamm, executive consultant, to discuss how they provide customized support to help leaders transition into board service. Navigate Forward is a firm that assists executives in adding board service to their professional experience or planning for the future beyond the end of their corporate careers. Anne and Patty share the process for finding an opportunity that matches a leader’s experience and interests and how they help executives secure paid board seats.

Define Your “Why”

Anne explains there are many reasons an executive may pursue board service. Leaders are often looking for a way to continue adding value following their corporate career or are seeking new challenges in addition to their current position. Defining why you want to serve is the first step in finding the right role for you. Identifying concise language and refining this message is critical in marketing yourself throughout the extensive networking and search process, which could take up to 18 months. 

This is part of the process that requires the most soul-searching, as Anne and Patty explain. It requires answers to questions such as:

  • How will I shift my language and mindset from operator to strategic thought leader?
  • How will I integrate board service into my current career?
  • How much time can I realistically commit?
  • How do I envision my post-career life in addition to board service?
  • How can I add value to a board?

Diving into these questions and developing essential materials such as an updated resume, board bio, and LinkedIn profile are the key differentiators between working with a firm like Navigate Forward and hiring a recruiter who may not have the same board service insight.

How to Network to the Seat at the Table

While it can take 12 to 18 months to obtain a board seat, the bulk of the preparation and activity occurs early in the process. Anne and Patty share that building and connecting with your network are significant steps in finding a board role. Leaders can begin by leveraging LinkedIn, conferences, and speaking engagements to discuss and promote their interests with other professionals. Additionally, if leaders already serve on a board, they have access to other leaders across sectors that may develop into a board connection later. 

If you’re interested in serving on a board now or in the future, stream the entire episode to learn more about how you can prepare, gain more confidence, and find a role that matches your long-term needs, plus:

  • The time commitment and general economic incentive you may expect
  • Why credit unions may use board readiness services as an executive benefit to retain top talent
  • Why it pays to be selective and learn how to potentially turn down some board roles 

Hear the full conversation here.


Anne Sample, Patricia Hamm, and Navigate Forward are not affiliated with or endorsed by ACT Advisors, LLC.


Audio Transcription (pulled from the podcast)

Doug  

My guests today are Anne Sample and Patricia Hamm from Navigate Forward. Welcome Anne and Patty, we’re delighted to have you on the show. I want to talk a little bit about the work Navigate Forward does, specifically the work you’re doing with the leaders of the credit union movement.

Anne Sample  

Great, Doug, we’re really looking forward to that. We have worked with a few credit union leaders specifically on getting them prepared for board service. And also on thinking about their future and usually board service is a part of that. So we’re excited to talk to you today because we have found credit union leaders to be great business leaders who in general are also very humble. And so our services can be very important for those folks, because they’ve got great capabilities but not great comfort talking about their talents. And that’s an important thing for folks to be able to do to be able to serve on boards.

Doug  

Excellent. Well, tell me a little bit about Navigate Forward. What kind of work does the company do? You’ve already told us a little bit about how that’s helping the leaders of credit unions. So just tell me broader, what does Navigate Forward do?

Anne Sample  

Absolutely. Navigate Forward provides customized support to senior executives, to leaders, who are currently in career transition, planning change for their future, or seeking board service. Board readying, this actually happens to be our fastest growing practice area. But what we do, Doug, is we help leaders define their future and then get there.

Doug  

Mm hmm. This sounds like great content. In fact, it’s going to be so good I think we’re going to need two podcast episodes. So today, we’re going to focus on board readiness. If you think you want to have paid board roles after your leadership at the credit union is done, we’re going to talk about how to get ready for those roles and what that might entail. And then in another episode, we’re going to talk about how to get clear on your meaningful activities, both before and after retirement, and how perhaps this fits together with that. Anything to add to those suggested topics? 

Anne Sample  

No, we’re really interested in talking to you and it’ll be fun because Patty’s actually working with a credit union leader right now so she’s got some very recent experience she can bring. And I can talk in broad strokes about the work we do and how we get it done.

Doug  

Well, let’s start out by talking about why. Why do paid board work to begin with?

Anne Sample  

You know, for the majority of our clients, it’s actually the opportunity to find a way to continue to add value beyond a corporate role. Sometimes they’re looking for board service while they’re working. And in fact, we suggest if somebody wants board service to be part of their portfolio of experience after a corporate career, they really want to get started while they’re working. Because it can take 12 to 18 months to land your first board role, and you’re a better candidate when you are working. So in general, I would say people come to us either because they’re looking to supplement. They love their current role, but they want more, they want to be doing more. Or they’re looking to the future and recognizing that board service is going to be part of their life beyond corporate work. And they want to get on their first board now.

Doug  

In my work with credit union leaders, I see a lot of the desire to make a difference, to make an impact, to serve others. And I imagine depending on what sort of board you’re involved in, you might be able to continue that deliverable through board service.

Anne Sample  

Absolutely. And in fact, it’s the best reason to serve on boards. It may supplement somebody’s financial planning and their earnings, but board service is never going to be looked at on an hourly basis. It doesn’t look like a corporate career. People are doing it to make a difference. They’re doing it to work with organizations they care about and to make sure those organizations are more successful. And so there’s definitely a mission focus.

Doug  

So 12 to 18 months. Let’s just start right there. You have a general interest in board service because you’re listening to this podcast. And the first thing you’re learning is that you need to start doing some things a year to two years before you retire from the credit union to get ready. What are those things that you need to be doing?

Anne Sample  

Well, I’ll highlight some of them. And then I’m going to ask Patty to add as well, because I think she’s got that the recent experience here. And what I would say is, it’s really important to start by thinking about your availability, making sure you’ve got time to do the work. Thinking about why you want to serve, because that’s one of the things you are going to have to be able to answer for boards. And that answer needs to be clear. And then it’s also the right time to do a self-assessment and inventory of your experience. Think about what you can bring to a board. As you think about getting ready for board service, you’re going to need to get a really clear market message, you’re going to need to get materials together. And you’re going to need to get out there and network, because that’s how you’re going to find the board role. And so the board readiness work is actually heavier at the front end of this process, because you have a lot of homework to do. And you need to really think through your language. And that has to be done. And you need to create materials. And when I talk about the 12 to 18 months, most of that 12 to 18 months is getting out there and networking. But upfront there’s a whole process to go through. Patty, do you do mind? What kind of things have you started with as you think about especially working with credit union leaders? Where’s this process start?

Patty Hamm  

I think you articulated many of the components, but we call it the discovery phase. And I think it is probably the most challenging for our leaders. And you had mentioned earlier, Doug, that our credit union leaders are very service-oriented, community-focused. So that discovery about how do I take the work I’ve done with members, with the community, and bring that to a board, in my experience it takes a lot of soul-searching. So I think it’s a challenging time. But it’s also, I think, a very exciting time for the leaders I’ve worked with to go through that process.

Doug  

So getting clear on your why it is what I’m hearing you both say. To be very clear on who you are, what you have to bring, and why you want to do it.

Anne Sample  

That’s right.

Doug  

Let’s say you have done that. And you know what you want as far as the amount of time you can commit to it and the kind of difference you would like to make. You said you need to get networking. And of course, in this situation, this leader is still working, actively leading their credit union. So where are they networking?

Anne Sample  

Of course, they’re actively leading their organization and they’re busy. But the fact of the matter is, they need to be out there networking with their own board members, with folks who are in their broader professional network. And they need to be helping people understand they have an interest in board service. This is actually some of the easiest networking to do, right? It can be really tricky when somebody is looking for a new job; the way they network has to be really sensitive because in their current organization the transparency can’t be there. In this situation, there can be lots of transparency, because you’re leading a credit union, you’ve got a great organization, but you’re ready to add board service. And so we help people think about the networking strategy and the plan they want to build. We used to say when all of this happened in person that it would take a lot of cups of coffee or a lot of other beverages as you’re networking your way through. Now, it takes a lot of Zoom calls and a lot of phone conversations. But it’s the same concept of being clear about why you want to be on a board, being clear about what you bring, and making sure people know about that because of how most board roles are filled. There may be a recruiter involved, but they’re filled because somebody on the board puts your name on the table.

Doug  

So networking with others who are already doing what you want to be doing is my takeaway from what you just said, is ideal. I’m thinking about credit union leaders who are very often on a variety of industry boards; almost all of them non-paid positions. And so it could be a challenge I would imagine for a credit union leader to find the ability to network with paid board members, especially outside of the credit union industry. Any guidance around how to go about kind of broadening that? 

Patty Hamm  

I know for my current client, there were many aha moments about where that networking can take place. For instance, conferences and speaking engagements. All of a sudden a new agenda came on his radar about there’s people I’m going to want to meet at these professional meetings I’m at to have these conversations about boards. And I think what I alluded to, it’s not just the people who are on unpaid boards, but it could be a member in the credit union who can bring conversations about who they know in the industry or the particular companies the executive may be interested in pursuing a board role. As Ann mentioned, their own board members are on other boards. So that network continues to further develop as you have conversations within it.

Doug  

So what I want to take from that is, what I immediately thought about, credit union leaders have relationships with various large vendor companies that work with their credit union and have maybe for decades, and some of them may be potential networking opportunities for board members, and then significant members of the credit union who have that sort of entity structure. And it seems to me that simply having a list of who’s already doing that, and maybe that list should be started a long time before 12 to 18 months out, I would think that list could be started five years out of who’s already in that space, who’s already doing those sorts of things, or even has connections to that space for the paid board roles. You mentioned something a minute ago about recruiters for this space. Talk to me about how that works—recruiters for paid board service.

Anne Sample  

Sure, but can I go back to one idea, though, Doug? I want to go back to networking. 

Doug  

You can go back to all the ideas, Anne. Go ahead. 

Anne Sample  

Because I also think anytime I have interacted with a credit union leader, I have found because there is such a strong mission orientation, they also serve on great nonprofit boards. And again, as you’re sitting on a nonprofit board, the others who are sitting around the board are coming from different backgrounds. And so whether it’s industry boards you’re serving on, look at the others. That industry board itself may not be a paid board role. But the board that is sitting at the table, if you think about the backgrounds of the others sitting in that non-paid board role, or in that nonprofit, you’re going to find people who are either leaders in other companies that have boards or are also sitting on paid boards. And so it’s really a matter of looking at the people you’re currently connected to. And we find people will say, I’m not sure I have that big a network; I don’t know how I would leverage it for this. And once they start to think about who do you really know who’s in your contact list? Who are you serving on boards with? You all of a sudden start to realize you’ve got a much richer starting point than you might have expected. And those people need to know you’re interested, because if they know that, they won’t just be thinking about the nonprofit board you sit on; they’re going to think about how much value you add there and say, well, wait a minute, I could use this person over here. So I wanted to go back to that. You also asked about recruiters, and it depends on the size of the organization and the size of the entity. When you look across board roles for small and medium-sized companies, sometimes they do their own board recruiting or sometimes they use a local recruiter, large entities really, they use large search firms. And so there’s a whole variety of people who are being paid retained fees to find board members with certain capabilities and attributes. And there are things you need to do to make sure those people can find you. At the same time, often those people actually end up, you know, a company will hire a retained search firm to help fill a board seat. And what the retained search firm’s actually doing is vetting all the candidates the other board members bring to the table. And it’s almost like a third party to do the vetting.

Doug  

Interesting. Now, is that part of the service that Navigate Forward offers? 

Anne Sample  

No, where our sweet spot is, Doug, when you think about where we add value, we work with people who have the capabilities to serve on boards to help them do everything they need to figure out how to capture and market those capabilities, and how to have the conversations. We’re not a placement firm. What we do is help people be successful in their search process. And there are retained fees. But what I tell people is, you have to be careful, because their retained firm is only going to have so many board roles to fill. So one of the common mistakes we find people make is they’ll say, I want to get on a board, but you know, my buddy, Bob, or Suzanne, they’re a recruiter and they’re going to find me a board role. Well, even the most active recruiters are going to have less than 15 board roles to fill a year, and the chances that those match your capabilities are pretty slim. So recruiters are a part of the process, but they’re not going to help you find a board role. It’s going to be about the activity you do and the conversations you have.

Doug  

Excellent, excellent. So something you said a second ago made me think about, is the engagement with your company an engagement the credit union typically has? Or is it the executive who’s making that engagement?

Anne Sample  

You know, as our services continue to grow and develop, typically it’s been a person coming to us because they’re interested in serving on a board. And they engage us directly, and we sit solely in their corner. And that’s the way we do all of our work with clients; we’re there to support the client. What is interesting, though, is I think as organizations in this great war for talent, as people are thinking about what they can be doing to keep and develop their talent, what has happened within the last 18 months or so, is that companies have started to hire us to do board readiness work with their leaders as a way of retaining talent. Now, we haven’t been hired by a credit union yet to do that. But we have a number of corporate entities that are using board readiness as part of their development approach, part of what they do for development planning for leaders.

Doug  

Interesting. Walk me through the logic to how would the company benefit from doing that? Can you help me with that?

Anne Sample  

Sure. It’s actually as a company, almost every organization, every board, is concerned about retaining their CEO, right? They want to make sure their CEO is staying with their organization. And so if you think about a CEO who has already been to outside programs, been certified, you’re kind of running out of ideas for development. Well, a CEO can be a much better CEO if they’ve actually had experience seeing in another boardroom, in another sector, seeing how problems are being solved. And so companies are really doing it for several reasons. One is because it makes their senior leaders better. It’s a new kind of development when you have been on the management side of the table in a board meeting and all of a sudden you have to shift to the board side of the table. It’s actually just one of those development experiences that makes you a better leader inside the organization. It’s also a great way too, if somebody is at a point where they feel like they’re hitting a lot of the challenges and the workload is still heavy. When people get really proficient, it’s not like the number of hours at work changes. But they also aren’t having the same kind of challenges. So sometimes board work is a way to actually retain somebody by helping them find new challenges and work on those challenges at the same time they’re leading the organization. Does that make sense? 

Doug  

It makes great sense. But of course, a lot of credit union leaders are very much involved in board roles with other credit union leaders for corporate boards. I know they’re very much used to that. But this is maybe a leadership role outside of the industry. So do you see paid board roles coming into effect while they’re still running the credit union? Or does that not happen until afterward?

Anne Sample  

Oh, no, it can absolutely happen there. A paid board role can take up to 300 hours a year. So that’s a lot of time. You have to think about things like how do our calendars line up? Are there any conflicts of interest? I mean, it has to be the right scenario. But at the same time again, burnout has never been defined by how many hours a week somebody works. It’s how they feel about the work they’re doing. And so this is a way to potentially add energy, excitement, and new learning. And especially if you’ve got a leader who’s doing just a great job for your organization. But you’re concerned—are they getting bored, do they need some new challenges? It can be a great way to add challenges to their plate and still maintain the leadership of the organization.

Doug  

Very interesting. So talk to me some more about your board readiness package and some of the other things you help the leaders to go through to identify who they want to network with, to change their messaging on LinkedIn, and other places to kind of get lined up for these roles. What are the other tactical things they could be thinking about?

Anne Sample  

Well, Patty talked about our discovery process. And that’s really about getting right in your own head about why you want to do this, where you can serve, and the value you bring. But from that activity, you need to then transition into what I sometimes describe as brand marketing for the individual. Because then a person needs to get really clear about what is their narrative, what do they tell people about what kind of boards they want to serve on and what they could bring. And it needs to be a clear, crisp, concise statement. And then they have to have the materials to back it up. So the kind of work we do with individuals and with leaders is to help them get really clear on their message; we give them a place to practice it. You have to get really comfortable, so if you’re at those conferences Patty talked about, where all of a sudden you’re networking with people, you’ve got to be able to be really comfortable with that narrative. And then they’re going to say, great, could you send me your board bio? So there are three documents we help all of our clients create. We help them update their CV or their resume. And the language and the tone are a little bit different than a work resume, because it needs to feel like it represents the work you could do as a board member. We help people create the most important document, which is a board bio, because while you have to have a resume, unfortunately, nobody really reads them. I mean, I chuckle because people work so hard on their resumes. And I really wonder how many times a resume has been read from start to finish. A board bio is a very short picture, but a very powerful picture with you as a board member in language that is different from your operational language that highlights your governance experience, your oversight experience, your strategy. And it’s the simple version of your board background. And then they’re also probably going to look at your LinkedIn. And I know there’s a ton of credit union leaders who haven’t touched LinkedIn. I know it feels like a tool people only use when they want new jobs, which is not true. It’s a very powerful tool, and chances are anybody you run into at one of those sessions, the first thing they do is pick up their phone and look you up on LinkedIn. And so your LinkedIn profile also needs to represent your board search. At a very tactical level, there are also some behind the scenes settings, and things you want to have on your LinkedIn profile so those recruiters we talked about earlier know you’re interested in looking for board roles. Because the recruiters use LinkedIn in a whole different way. And there’s some very easy things you can do behind the scenes in your settings to make sure folks know you’re interested. So that’s super tactical, Doug. But the notion is you got to have your message, you got to have your materials, you got to be ready to use them.

Doug  

And going back to what you said a minute ago, as you’re thinking about your network with a new filter to the board roles outcome, you should be using your LinkedIn to connect to these individuals years, potentially years in advance of the end of your credit union career so you have those contacts and as you are messaging in a different way, that message is reaching the right audience. Would that be right? 

Anne Sample  

That’s exactly right. When you look at the LinkedIn portion of our practice, there’s two pieces of it, Doug. One is getting your profile to really represent you. But the other, that’s more important, is starting to use LinkedIn as a tool. And just developing your own use of that tool so you’re using it frequently enough to create those connections. You’re letting people see your thought leadership. There’s kind of a bare minimum of your profile that has to at least represent you. In an ideal world, spending just a few minutes a day on the tool to keep building out your network, commenting on people’s posts, and thinking about how you show up as a thought leader will also set you up for a board role in the future. And doing that early is smart. 

Patty Hamm  

I think the other part the clients have really appreciated is that we don’t just develop the toolkit and the packages, but we really work with them and practice how they’re going to network, what they say during that networking, as well as if a board interview opportunity comes; we help practice that with them. So they really do gain that confidence about how succinct they’re being, how clear they’re being. All of us participate in making that a successful venture for them.

Doug  

Sounds like that’s something for more content, the board interview, how to prepare for and deliver on that opportunity, but probably a little deeper than we want to go today. Let’s talk a little bit about the economic incentive for these leaders. So you said already the driver behind the activity is not the economics, but the desire to continue making a difference to continue to be a leader. But I’m used to seeing some of this activity, and what I’m used to seeing is what I’d call a modest incentive structure, maybe something in the $30-50,000 salary or stipend, along with a stock issuance of a similar amount with vesting over several years. Is that what you see? What sort of range do you see and the compensation?

 

Anne Sample  

That is what we see, Doug. I would probably have gone even a little broader on the cash side, because it depends on the business and their stage of development. The cash line of the compensation on somebody’s first board is often something between $20-70,000. And I think it depends on the size of the opportunity and depends on the individual in terms of how much equity is on the table as well. And again, if somebody is building out a portfolio of multiple boards, that does become more meaningful, but the important thing is really getting on that first board and having that go well.

Doug  

And for the $20 to 70,000 for the cash compensation plus equity compensation, you’re saying 300 hours a year is the amount of time we might be talking about?

Anne Sample  

Well, we tell people to prepare for that because I think oftentimes, on the management side, people will only see the time board members spend in the meetings. And so when somebody’s thinking about a board role, they’ll go, oh, this is easy. It’s four meetings a year. And what they forget is most board members also serve on committees. And there’s prep work. And if you’re meeting as a board, our 300 hours includes getting on the airplane if you have to travel for it. So we just want people to be realistic about the amount of time it could take. I would rather overestimate than underestimate because I think it allows people to be picky; we want people to be picky. You’re making a choice about where to spend your time. Sometimes the work we do in board readiness is helping somebody turn down their first board role because they got out there and they were networking and they’re telling people about their interest and one comes on the table quickly. But it doesn’t really match the individual’s long-term goals. It has to align. And so that’s an important piece of the work we do as well because we sat with the person in discovery. So we know what they said about what they want to do. And we can help remind them.

Doug  

Once someone decides to join a board, how long is that engagement usually for? 

Anne Sample  

That’s an important question to ask when you’re going through the board process and the vetting process of the board roles, because some boards become very long-term commitments, and you almost want to understand what’s your upward age limit. How long have your board members typically served? Boards are structured really differently. So I don’t even have an average to share. Because what I would tell you is, it can be so different, and in the private company world especially those terms and tenures can be really different. And you want to understand is this board talking to you because they’re expecting you’re going to serve on the board for 10 years? Because that would be a very different kind of commitment. Now, you still always have a choice as a board member to decide how long you’re going to stay involved. But you want to understand terms, you want to understand whether you’re coming in the middle of a term or at the beginning, and what is the expectation?

Doug  

Wow, I had no idea that 10 years could be part of that equation; that is a very substantial commitment. Are your clients typically serving on more than one board at a time?

Anne Sample  

I would say that it depends upon whether they’re actively employed. What I have found is if companies are supporting a board role, and if somebody is fitting it in with their active employment, they’re on one board, maybe two, if they really have the time to fit that in. We certainly have clients who have come to us who are doing this at the end of their corporate career. And at that point, we have some clients who are serving on four and five boards. It’s really hard to get the calendars to align and I think it also depends on somebody’s plan for life after a corporate career. The individual I’m thinking of who’s one of our clients who serves on those boards is actually fairly young; she decided to go into board service instead of her corporate career. She wants to be spending as much time on boards as she was in a corporate career. Others are looking at this as part of a plan. And they’re also wanting to spend time with their family, they have service requirements they want to do. What I love about the work we do with people, especially through our legacy planning, is we help people think about where does board service fit in? If you’re doing it to sit beside a corporate career, how much time do you have? If you’re doing it as an off-ramp to your corporate career, what other things are important to you? Sometimes people are so wired to add value that they all think they have to have a ton of corporate boards, because that would be the same amount of value as I was adding to a credit union before. And at the end of the day, you want to make sure you’re asking them to think about that in terms of their true interests and what their personal needs are.

Doug  

Awesome. Absolutely fascinating content. I am thrilled for the discussion we’ve had. So as we wrap up our first episode, I would just hand it over to Anne and Patty for any final guidance or comments for our listeners who have some interest in further exploring board readiness.

Anne Sample  

You know, Doug, the thing I would add is that most people have trouble. We can help them almost from a translation standpoint, to think about how to take the language they typically have used to describe their accomplishments and to go from sounding like an operator or a leader who has been running a credit union to using language that sounds more like a board member. I think that’s harder for individuals to do without help. What I would always say as a tip is sometimes people will talk to us about our board readiness service. They say, you know what, I got it, I totally hear what you’re saying, Anne and Patty, I’m good. I’m good to go. I’m going to go out there and tap my network. And what they find is they’re interviewing for board roles, but they’re actually getting offered leadership roles. And the reason that’s happening is because when they show up, the examples they share and the way they talk about their work make them sound like the great leader they are of an organization. And so instead, you need to step back and think about the role of the board. You know, the famous quote is, noses in fingers out. Great board members ask great questions, great board members bring strategic thought leadership. They don’t actually lead the change the organization goes through; they ask the questions to help the organization identify the change. And so I think really thinking about your language is the one of the important things we didn’t talk about. And I think that’s an important part of the services we often provide. Patty, what else have we forgotten?

Patty Hamm  

I don’t think it’s anything that has been forgotten. But what I do think has been appreciated from clients is that it’s similar to the work we do in helping an executive find a new role. They’re transitioning from the current role and want to find a new industry or new role. It’s foreign territory. You know, a lot of our executives have been in positions for 15–20 years and this is a new thought they have, a new arena to explore. So it’s foreign landscape. And I think the confidence they can gain through having a partner to guide them to the process is one of the key benefits.

Doug  

Excellent. Anne and Patty, thank you so much for joining me and helping the leaders of the credit union movement to have the information they need to consider whether or not they want to be a part of board service activity at this time, or going into retirement if that’s appropriate for them. So I thank you very much for today’s content and look forward to our next episode.


Keep listening on the following platforms:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0uhvzbA6Ye6qexq3a7AH8E

Anchor: https://anchor.fm/c-u-on-the-show

Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81MzFkZmI0OC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==

Breaker: https://www.breaker.audio/cu-on-the-show

Pocket Cast: https://pca.st/1tlilc8z

RadioPublic: https://radiopublic.com/cu-on-the-show-Wwe3Mg

YouTube: https://youtu.be/W3NuIHmFDiU

Comments are closed.